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67591
F15: Hundreds of thousands demonstrate in Athens and whole Greece
by Ilias 02:02am, Sunday February 16 2003
(Modified 03:03pm, Wednesday February 26 2003)
θεματικές: Ιράκ

Huge antiwar demonstration in Athens on February the 15th. Medium-scale clashes with the police and 24 arrests.

A huge anti-war demonstration took place in Athens, Greece on February 15th. Estimates for the number of people that participated are still floating, with no clear estimate given by the police, neither by the organizers . It was clear however to anyone that has experience in attending demonstrations that the crowd was well into the hundreds of thousands, with the 200.000 reported by many corporate media being a reasonable estimate. Sintagma Square was filled to capacity with people listening from 12:00 p.m. to anti-war speeches and music. Tens of thousands were also filling the nearby streets, carrying hundreds of anti-war banners, balloons, signs, t-shirts etc.

The march started at about 1:00 p.m., with the people assembled in (occupying practically the whole length of ) Stadiou street (Greek Communist Party's many initiatives, trade unions and students) begun the route towards the American embassy. The last demonstrators reached the embassy at about 5:30, as endless blocks of people chanting antiwar and antiamerican slogans were passing for 4 hours in front of the - very much hated in Athens - building. Many bands and some music vans were raising the spirits of the demonstrators, while some blocks insisted on the walk-and-shout traditional style.

Early in the day, in Sintagma square, activists from the Virus collective threw quite a few yogurts (the Greek equivalent of throwing a pie) to Kostas Laliotis, the General Secreatry of PASOK (the governing party). It was an act of anger over the government's hypocrisy: supporting the demo on the one hand, allowing the U.S. military to use military bases in Greece on the other. People from the same group "attacked" with red paint-bombs the Italian and British Embassies, as well as covered with toilet paper a military airplane exhibited in the War Musuem.

More violent activism was adopted by hundreds of anarchists, which from 2:30 p.m. engaged in sporadic clashing with the police forces. The headquarters of the newspaper "BIMA" and a police car were also attacked, even before the march has started. The police responded with frequent and abundant use of tear-gas, causing severe irritation and anger to the mass of the demonstrators as the skirmishes continued for hours along the route of the demo. At about 4:30 p.m. the clashes were escalated in the area near the American Embassy, with the police using indiscriminately tear-gas on the whole demonstration. Hundreds of people responded by throwing stones at them, and for about 30' a larger scale scuffle broke out. Tensions were afterwards relaxed, as rock-throwers were no match for chemical agents. The police made 24 arrests, almost all of them random and particularly brutal.

Photos [1, 2, 3, 4]

According to IMC-Thessaloniki, more than 40.000 people took part in a powerful antiwar demo in the city. The anarchist block there, some 1.000 people strong, attacked the police forces guarding the American consulate and clashes followed. Demonstrations also took place in almost every city in Greece, including Patras (e????e?), Volos, Giannena, Kavala, Aleksandroupoli, Orestiada, Komotini, Irakleio, Rethimno, Rodes, Mitilini.


 
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67633
beware of fake anarchists!!!!
by howard 04:27am, Sunday February 16 2003
be careful!!!


the fake anarchists are PAID INFILTRATORS. they did it in genoa.


FAKES! paid to decieve and undermine peace.

paid by SECRET POLICE.

THEY ARE FAKE ANARCHISTS DETERMINED TO GIVE REAL ANARCHISTS A WORSE REP AND ACTUALLY Stalinists and worse.

They tried to derail peaceful protests in Genoa and elsewhere.

be smart!!


@ forever @

www.southerncrossreview.org/Ebooks/ebcaesars.htm


 
67647
these people weren't fake anarchists
by antifa 08:24am, Sunday February 16 2003
The Greek anarchist movement is extremely amazing, and is unflinching in its resistance to the state. It has been a huge force for years now, and their attacks on capitalist and state oppression are legit, and should be recognized as such. SOME of the "anarchists" in Genoa you were referring to were fakes though - paid cops and fascists by the Italian state police to act as anarchists. Your attempt at pointing out the fact that they were both fake because they were both violent is a false argument. The actions the fake blac bloc in Italy were targeted at random cars and random places of working class areas to provoke a distancing from that wing of the movement by the rest of the demonstrators. The Greek anarchists are real - they are pissed off anti-authoritarian working class families and rightfully so. Their violent actions are nothing more than countering attacks by the ruling class. We should learn from their passion for a new society. They are beautiful people with a beautiful vision, and they're not interested in capitalist "peace" that most of the anti-war movement wants. They want peace for everyone, and capitalism and statism doesn't allow peace. They are fighting for our lives out there.
I stand in solidarity with them!
FruDurru
 
67653
mas katalaban pantu
by ξένος 09:05am, Sunday February 16 2003
Ακόμα και απο το εξωτερικό κατάλαβαν τους fake anarxists
 
67660
foto
by c 10:05am, Sunday February 16 2003

.
 
67691
Thessaloniki: the real anarchist block
by RED/BLACK 12:59pm, Sunday February 16 2003
Photos from the very much real anarchist block in Thessaloniki, shortly after the attack at the american consulate:
http://thessaloniki.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=8660&group=webcast
 
67699
anarchists
by Razor in the night 01:15pm, Sunday February 16 2003
e-mail: razor_in_the_night@hotmail.com
hey I'm sorry 'cos my english is very bad. I'm a spanish anarchist, I've seen the Athens demonstration in TV and I was looking for information about that. I think Iraq people will like so much a really fight with their enemies (occident states) than a beautiful singing and dancing day, (hippies and coppers having fun). Here the demonstrations were just that, flowers, songs, pacifist simbols... here the fucking demonstrations SUCKS! With flowers and songs we will never smash the state! It's nice that the people go to the streets 'cos they are against the war, but greek anarchist rules ;)
 
67720
Notice about Thessaloniki
by anarchist from Thessaloniki 02:16pm, Sunday February 16 2003
Some comments show exactly what the state tries to express. A few months ago, Italian president Beslusconi's magazine "PANORAMA" tried to make a clear distinction between anarchists from Thessaloniki and Athens. Everybody "in the movement" knows that in Thessaloniki there have come some leftists with "anarchist" profile and because of their connections with official media, the greek communist party etc. try to show themselves off as "real" anarchists, altering the anarchist views, co-operating with left parties etc.
That's why you' ll see young people being confused in Thessaloniki, for example thessaloniki.indymedia who actually adopt Berlusconi's view of "serious" Thessaloniki anarchists. Anybody can see that if they ask them (imc-salonica) about the demo in 17th November 2002, when a much more dynamic attack was happening outside the american consulate, and they'll say they were not anarchists! but hooligans.
Fortunately there still real anarchists in here.
Many anarchist from Thessaloniki really admire our comrades in Athens and don't believe that bullshit about "serious" Thessaloniki anarchists and "violent" Athens anarchists. The lies are obvious. FIGHT THE STATE BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
P.S. Sorry I'm saying all these, but the stakes are high in Thessaloniki now for the counter-revolutionaries, so it' s good to have a clear view.
 
67722
greetings and solidarity from germany
by the grey one 02:25pm, Sunday February 16 2003
hey you down in Greece! thank you for demonstrating, reporting and taking photos - it´s great to see greece also looks nice not only in landscape. i learned last spring to love country and greek people as well. let´s stand up, fight and think with one voice, the voice of friendship.
 
67769
In front of the US consulate
by TIK 04:01pm, Sunday February 16 2003
Some photos from the attack on the police line in front of the US consulate
http://thessaloniki.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=8697&group=webcast
http://thessaloniki.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/metafiles/poreia15f066.jpg

P.S. You don΄t have to ask Thessaloniki-imc about 17 November 2002. You can ask any of the organised anarchist groups in Thessaloniki, who, before the start of the march, advised everybody from the anarchist milleu not to participate, as it was evidently a police trap. And it's exactly what happened. The so-called black block had the lowest participation ever and when few persons threw some rocks, the police attacked, everybody started running in panic, trying to hide into leftist parties blocks, while undercover policemen made a lot of arrests. The people who''achieved'' the 17 November 2002 fiasco were not hooligans, they were just idiots.
 
68597
regarding fake anarchists
by anna 03:32am, Tuesday February 18 2003
I believe violent Greek demonstrators consist of both people who think this is the right thing to do, as well as people paid to do this so that the police will have an excuse to attack the rally.
I know this to my satisfaction because I have (years ago) taken a photograph of a Greek policeman dressed as an 'anarchist' (black head to toe, dark glasses) going into a police van with his real comrades! At another situation at the courts for some bloody trial a group of anarchist supporters were chatting about the situation and stuff. I noticed one new bloke who 'looked' right (demin, long hair) but didn't say a word. I wasn't surprised to later notice him wink to someone who was obviously a plainclothes policeman.
Oh, and people who engage in riots at soccer matches also turn up to demos hoping for some action! They usually get it too, but I noticed when the going really gets tough they piss off....
 
68615
Just a comment
by Khayman 08:02am, Tuesday February 18 2003
I too believe that violence is necessary when countering the violence of the state. I too believe that singing and dancing is not enough. However I must point out that getting so many people to come out to the streets and demonstrate their feelings for this war is an achievement not to be underestimated.

The whole point in Greece is that there is a certain status quo regarding demonstrations. Each and every one of them contains violence which is, sometimes, not targeted towards the right direction. In Genoa, secret policemen dressed as anarchists, attacked and smashed property in working class areas, and as it has been correctly pointed out, this happened in order to provoke the common people. Here's the thing. This kind of action happens all the time in Greece. There is untargeted, ineffective violence happening everytime there's a demonstration. This has created a wave of negative criticism directed towards the anarchist movement both from the inside and from the outside, these including common people, leftists and anarchists alltogether. The word anarchist in itself is negative in Greece. It's used to describe people who have no principles, a misconception assisted by the linguistic origins of the word anarchist, which is implicit.

Worst of all, this whole scenario has lead the anarchist movement in Greece to disorientaion and confusion. Everybody accuses anarchists of being hooligan simpletons with adrenaline disorders and not thinking, fighting human beings.

Whether the "trouble makers" are paid policemen, stupid hooligans or mislead people, I cannot tell. Probably, all three. The point is that this kind of violence has turned many anarchists away from the movement in distain.

Another problem in Greece is the lack of organisation and unity between anarchists groups. There is no serious amount of rivalry, thankfuly, but still, it is not enough.

I believe that a lot of anarchists are disturbed with the way things are moving on in Greece regarding their movement and are trying to figure out a way they can deal with it. Noone wants to isolate the "trouble makers" for many reasons, most importantly out of respect to their right to define their own methods of action. Still, as much as this honours them, they too, are troubled as to whether this kind of violence benefits the anarchist movement in particular and the movement in a wider sense. In a way, I recognise a certain amount of guilt because they have to deal with all the criticism too, even if they don't participate in this sort of action.

So, as the comrade from Spain noted earlier on, singing and dancing alone is not going to change the world. But neither is the destruction of working class property. Riots are supposed to be a means to achieve a certain amount of change, be it social or political, not a Sunday afternoon football match. Riot and vandalism are different meanings (although I do hold in great reverance the moto "Vandalism : As Beautiful As A Rock On A Cop's Face"). The latter should not, can not be the goal of the first, simply the means of it if it must happen at all. Revolution is not something you should be able to predict, and if this hypothesis stands correct, then it easy to assume that the revolution will never originate from Greece, because this part of the anarchist movement has indeed become, painfully predictable.
 
70613
The real reasons
by one of all 09:48pm, Sunday February 23 2003
US supported Bin Laden and the Talibans for years,

and viewed them as freedom fighters against the Russians.



As late as 1998 the US was paying the salary of

every single Taliban's official in Afghanistan.



There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea area

than in Saudi Arabia, but you need a pipeline through Afghanistan to get

the oil out.



UNOCAL, a giant American Oil conglomerate, wanted to

build a 1,000 mile long pipeline from the Caspian Sea

through Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea.



UNOCAL spent $10,000,000,000 on geological surveys

for pipeline construction, and very nicely courted the Talibans for

their support in allowing the construction to begin.



All of the leading Taliban officials were in Texas

negotiating with UNOCAL in 1998.



1998-1999 the Talibans changed its mind and threw

UNOCAL out of the country and awarded the pipeline

project to a company from Argentina.



John Maresca, VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress

and said no pipeline until the Taliban was gone and a

more friendly government was established.



1999-2000 The Talibans became the most evil people

in the world.



Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was

told by senior American officials in mid-July (2000)

that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead

by the middle of October (2000).



9/11 WTC disaster.



Bush goes to war against Afghanistan even though

none of the hijackers came from Afghanistan.



Bush blamed Bin Laden but has never offered any

proof saying it's a "secret".



Talibans offered to negotiate to turn over Bin Laden

if we showed them some proof. We refused; we bombed.



Bush said: "This is not about nation building. It's

about getting the terrorists."



We have a new government in Afghanistan.



The leader of that government formerly worked for

UNOCAL (Hamid Karrzai).



Bush appoints a special envoy to represent the US to

deal with that new government, who formerly was the

"chief consultant to UNOCAL" (LakhdarIbrahimi).



The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil?



Bush's Secretary of Interior was the President of an

oil company before going to Washington.



George Bush Sr. (Father) now works with the

"Carlysle Group" specializing

in huge oil investments around the world.



Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before gong to

Washington.



Chevron named one of its newest "supertankers" after Condoleezza. Isn't

that strange?



Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate

Haliburton before becoming VP of USA.



* Haliburton gave Cheney $34,000,000 as a farewell

gift when he left Haliburton.



* Haliburton is in the pipeline construction business.



There is $6 Trillion dollars worth of oil in the

Caspian Sea area.



The US government quietly announces Jan 31, 2002 we

will support the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline. Isn't

that strange?



President Musharref (Pakistan), and Karrzai,

(Afghanistan - Unocal) announce agreement to build

proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to

Pakistan via Afghanistan. (Irish Times 02/10/02)
 
71485
Perpetuating retribution? Why?
by Aja Mae Leafe 03:03pm, Wednesday February 26 2003
I am an American who was at the Athens protest. I spent the day in silence, partly because I believe in cultivating inner peace for outer peace, and partly because I did not want to give my identity as an American up while I was surrounded by angry anti-American protestors. At the moment some of the violence broke out, I had chosen to sit in meditation for a few minutes in a "peaceful" sunny spot. While I was sitting there breathing in the solidarity and hope for a peaceful world created by all the people who had gathered that day, feet ran past me and a riot started to break out where I was sitting. Suddenly I was chocking on tear gas and my own fear. The atmosphere had turned scary and war like. Reflecting on what happened, I am utterly stupefied as to why certain groups of protestors feel action like that is neccessary. All it does is get people hurt, arrested, and protests underminded. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we trying to send out a message of peace here? I do think that this attitude of perpetuating retribution is the bane of humanity's ability to move forward and to stop killing eachother.
 
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